Intelligent Design, The Science of it All

Religion destroyed knowledge

Religion destroyed knowledge

This was another posting that I just had to respond to that religion was damaging to society.  Follow it through and you will see the slick attempts to move the dialogue to side issues and the flat out refusal to answer questions or provide details to specific questions in response to my direct questions on their generalities. And of course after continuous requests to define anything that they are saying the inevitable vulgarity starts.

Samuel

What if every bit of of knowledge about religion that anyone has ever learned was knowledge about math or science instead? Now do you understand how damaging religion has been to society?

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Lauren How could you explain feelings then?

 

Larry Marshall Knowledge about religions is minuscule compared to the existing knowledge of everything else. I suggest you take your head out of a certain orifice and look around. You’re disbelief is destroying America more than anything else.

 

Stephen Time to abandon fanciful beliefs in the superstitious supernatural. Centuries of horrors perpetrated in the name of various ridiculous deities and still ongoing today. Insane.

 

Larry Marshall It is nice to generalize, but please be specific. Remember many wars were not fought for religious beliefs and many millions of people have been subjugated by individuals who have no religious affiliation. Mongol hordes for one. Why do you pick on just those that had some form religious affiliation, many tragic wars fought over land boundaries.

 

Samuel So Larry, you’re ok with all this? Since there were wars that were not about religion it makes the ones that were about religion ok? Since people were conquered for reasons other than religion it makes it ok to conquer in the name of religion? Since there’s so much to know beyond religion, it makes it ok to waste time, effort and knowledge on religion since it’s “miniscule” as you put it?

 

Larry Marshall Once again you miss the point, there are as many or as much murder and mayhem caused by non-religious reasons as for religious reasons. All of the atrocities have been wrong but are all do to mans inhumanity to others- original sin as we like to call it.

 

Samuel I see. You think all the murder and mayhem caused by religion is ok. That’s the difference between you and me.

 

Larry Marshall You just continue to pick and choose. I said “All of the atrocities have been wrong” And the main reason for that is MAN himself, whether for own personal gain or in defense of some religious goal. ALL WRONG. But if war is your only defense, then you are obviously handicapping yourself- intellects far greater than us have debated the subject with no definitive solution. I’m still waiting for a concrete example of :”Now do you understand how damaging religion has been to society?”

 

Samuel  Larry Marshall, technology has been set back a thousand years because of religion. Use your head.

 

Larry Marshall Prove it Samuel, get specific what hasn’t been accomplished or set back due to religious intervention.

 

Anthony Logic and reason Larry Marshall just think about it it’s not hard

 

Larry Marshall  Anthony I am a very reasonable person and I have since 1982 dealt with nothing but logic in my positions as a software developer, getting so far as to be able to have a Class 3 clearance with the NSA for a program that I worked on in conjunction with the City of Boulder , CO in 2000. All I do is deal with facts, sort them out, rearrange them, mine them to check and see patterns that others may not know exist. So then back to the above “get specific, what hasn’t been accomplished or set back due to religious intervention” Give me some facts so that I may sort them out for what they are: reality or ….. we’ll leave the conclusion until you provide me something to work with. And I’ll make a deal, you leave out the Crusades (way to many extenuating circumstances) and I’ll leave out Nazism and Marxism as being the result of Darwinism.

 

Samuel Are you trying to win merit by bragging about yourself? If that’s what we’re doing, I’ll share about myself as well. I also worked for the NSA back in 2008. I was involved in a little thing called The Sweet T Project at Fort Gordon in Augusta, Georgia. That same year, I spent some time in south Mississippi doing some work for NASA at the John C. Stennis base. With that said, I say religion has done nothing but cause damage, and obviously, with my credentials, what I say counts.

 

Larry Marshall Not bragging at all, just laying out my excitement for dealing with reason and logic which I believe I continually display. However, I get nothing but generalizations from you. Are you familiar with Robert Rice, he was part of the Virtual Interactive Anatomy that was used to help build the spacesuits. I assisted him in animating the VIA. Also you may have heard of John Strand- his book Pathways to the Planets is a remarkable tale of how JPL and NASA didn’t get along very well. I worked with Robert on several programs for geosynchronous satellites for the oil industry and visited the NOAA facility in MS in late 2011 just before I was getting to retire from AT&T . Of course none of this has anything to do with the facts reason for or logic of “religion has done nothing but cause damage,” and you haven’t given me any details to work with

 

Stephen  Larry Marshall The amount of horror created by Nazism and Marxism while despicable pales in comparison to that done in the names of various deities.

 

Larry Marshall Nope more individuals kilted than all the so-called religious wars. you keep getting off subject- name me one item of scientific inquiry that was halted or delayed by religion.

 

Larry Marshall Stephen Not so, far more dead from those two political parties than from all the Crusades put together. You would have to throw in such things as the Roman conquest of Europe and Eurasia (which was political and not religious). What wars do you consider “religious”? Then maybe we have something we can debate.

 

Stephen Larry Marshall Your defending primitive mythology which continues to spread its poison and destruction around the world. For if it’s one thing religionists hate more than non-believers it’s other religions. The belief that one preposterous deity is superior to another preposterous deity is well, preposterous. A pox on all of them.

 

Larry Marshall Two statements with no factual information to back them up. Prove to me Christianity is a primitive mythology and prove to me that it is spreading poison and destruction around the world. Your statement doesn’t prove it so- it just shows bigotry and prejudice almost to the spreading of a poisonous attitude of hate across the country.

 

Samuel Larry, don’t you feel embarrassed when you constantly need things explained to you as if you were a child? What Stephen and I have been telling you couldn’t be more plain yet you’re still lost like a confused child.

 

Stephen  Larry Marshall Any belief in the superstitious supernatural is primitive. It’s fanciful and entertaining in sci-fi movies but the inculcation of belief in punitive mythical deities who never show up for anything anywhere robs the mind of logic. We’re not spreading hate or poison, even though we have been the objects of opprobrium and worse. You’re just unaccustomed to having religious orthodoxy and hegemony even questioned. There’s no reason to be reverential or even deferential to that which we consider deleterious to the well-being of mankind. We mean no offense but the truth must be told and the fraud exposed. Truth always trumps fiction. I hope you get used to it soon.

 

Larry Marshall Samuel and Stephen Again you say many things but do not back them up with specific details. And yet you always ask me to explain my statements. “belief in punitive mythical deities ” is not Christianity. A common statement by you folks “deleterious to the well-being of mankind.” and yet NOTHING specific except what you believe but can’t seem to articulate except by referring back to the unknown. “truth must be told and the fraud exposed.” I’m waiting. I can see nothing truthful in an unsupported statement such as “understand how damaging religion has been to society” It is an unfounded belief of yours that has no backing, at this point, with any supportable facts. You are playing word games, saying what you think you believe and not making any statement that is supportable. But what is to be expected by Atheists, they have a faith that is founded on nothing but is yet everything.

 

 

Larry Marshall Let me make it easier for you. Tell just one technology that has been set back thousands of years due to religious interference?

 

 

Stephen That you don’t accept – despite what’s clearly written in your so-called “holy book” – that christianity, like the other major religions, is absolutely based on a mythological punitive deity is a testament to the depth of your delusion. The onus of proof is on you and the other fantasists: Produce your god. And you’re absolutely wrong – atheists have many beliefs it’s just that none of them are based on silly fables imagined or appropriated from other cultures by primitive men.

 

Larry Marshall Your first misunderstanding, common to man, is that we can call upon our God to perform miracles like a stage magician. The other so called regions are based on various local fairy tales for sure. What you believe is mythological has been proven true by thousands of individuals who are far more knowledgeable than you and me. Some of them, a minority to be sure, find the same values that you do. And the typical statement of an Atheist is “the onus of proof is on you.” No it isn’t You are maintaining that God does not exist- so prove it. It should be simple for you. I know that Atheists have many beliefs, none of them based upon any kind of an unchanging moral authority. And if you engage in enough research you would find that it is the other cultures who have modified and changed the basic tenets of the Christian faith. That is an entirely different issue (I prefer to keep them separate so they can be dealt with instead of grouping them into a 250 word Reader’s Digest version of a history of falsehoods) that I have dealt with some of them on my blog www.iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com I’m not suggesting you read it, you will find fault with everything, but many of your beliefs have been disproven, if you ever decide to want to expand your knowledge. Heck, you might still disagree with multiple PhD’s with years of experience. I sometimes do.

 

I Am Not An Atheist

To counter all the fools on the Atheist pages

iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com

 

Stephen Faith is a cheap and convenient excuse for lack of evidence. You go right ahead and continue believing in your feckless, imaginary deity. Luckily for the rest of us the fastest growing religion worldwide is NO religion. The world is finally emerging from the dark ages of preposterous superstitious belief.

 

Samuel Larry Marshall, you’re such a baby! You’re given details and require more details then require more details! Admit defeat, buttface!

 

Larry Marshall That is what I am saying- WHAT DETAILS! None that I can find, just generalities.

Larry Marshall Here I’ll help you. Ask me to explain the farcical graph

Religon & Science

Samuel Answer this: Would we be better off if churches were hospitals or colleges instead? What if missionaries taught math and science instead of religious lies? I’ve explained these things to you in better detail in previous debates but you still whine about details like a confused toddler.

 

Samuel You honestly think that because evil arises from other sources it justifies all the evil from religion. I don’t agree.

 

Larry Marshall Evil arises from all of mankind. The Christian tries to avoid evil. What evil from religion has caused so much damage to mankind that it has set science and technology back thousands of years. Do see the generalities you are speaking about. what “evil from religion” I won’t and can’t deny that there has been some, but it pales in comparison to the generality that you are trying to make it into and is pretty much on an equal footing with the evil not associated with religion.

 

Larry Marshall All you do is speculate. And do you believe that all the money, all the time and all the effort wasted on political pork barrel projects, wars to gain more territory, bribery to maintain political positions that mankind wouldn’t be better off. You are blaming the faults of manking (original sin) on religion and not on the true root of all evil- MAN themself.

 

Samuel Answer this: Would we be better off if churches were hospitals or colleges instead? What if missionaries taught math and science instead of religious lies? I’ve explained these things to you in better detail in previous debates but you still whine about details like a confused toddler.

 

Samuel You honestly think that because evil arises from other sources it justifies all the evil from religion. I don’t agree.

 

Larry Marshall Evil arises from all of mankind. The Christian tries to avoid evil. What evil from religion has caused so much damage to mankind that it has set science and technology back thousands of years. Do see the generalities you are speaking about. what “evil from religion” I won’t and can’t deny that there has been some, but it pales in comparison to the generality that you are trying to make it into and is pretty much on an equal footing with the evil not associated with religion.

 

 

Larry Marshall Why should a church be a hospital? We have many of them and in some areas to many so that they are running each other out of business (although I am sure that Obamacare has much to do with that) Why should they be colleges. Many colleges are funding by churches and do not use taxpayers money. In my opinion we need fewer colleges and more trade schools. The missionaries put out into the field by the Southern Baptists teach everything that the individuals in their area need to know. How to conserve water, how to cultivate plants ad increase crop yield (without being GMO), sanitation, personal health and hygiene. What you don’t know about Christianity is overwhelming. And no Christian who is a believer in Jesus Christ would knowingly lie. The missionaries are telling the mission people the truth about the Lord- which we already know you spend so much time criticizing. All I know is he is right where he needs to be- living daily in between your ears.

 

Larry Marshall And you and I both know that your question as framed is a straw man argument. It is unanswerable, because we cannot go back in time and change the factors that you would wish to in order to determine if it would create a change that would be judged good. You will never increase your knowledge of Christians or your own faith of Atheism unless you begin to ask realistic questions for which answers can be phased in less than theoretical questions. Theories are always interesting to debate, but no specific answer can arise from them.

 

 

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3 thoughts on “Religion destroyed knowledge

  1. Larry “get specific what hasn’t been accomplished or set back due to religious intervention”
    How would you know? Pretty simple, we, no one, can identify what could have occurred given differing circumstances
    Larry “What you believe is mythological has been proven true by thousands of individuals who are far more knowledgeable than you and me”
    This is a standby quote or paraphrase of a quote that you repeat over and over. Stating there is proof, is not that same as producing verifiable evidence.
    Larry “The Christian tries to avoid evil”
    I’m not sure you’re living in the real world. What you are attempting to do is project your specific belief system of how you view what a Christian should be onto the face of ALL other Christians, and those claiming to be Christians. In the exact same way, you project your concept of Atheism onto anyone that says they don’t believe in your Biblical God. Atheism is not a single all encompassing belief system. There are as many and varied concepts as there are humans. Let’s consider Bill Cosby, just twenty years ago he was the model Christian for America. Right when he was doing the most evil things imaginable to women. Where does that fit into your concept of Christianity?

  2. Roy You are right. Nobody could know what would have been different. which is my concern for Samuel stating that everything has been destroyed by religion. Condemn his statement as much as mine.
    Producing the verifiable evidence can not be done in the simple posting that I do. I condense and paraphrase the words of those that after extensive studying f both sides of an issue I believe to be correct. I can and have given out several books on Amazon.com that go for less than $10 that can explain some items far better than I can condense.
    As a Christian we try to avoid doing evil and live a moral life as close to that of Jesus that we can. I cam not and can not nor should be held responsible for the “faith” of any other person. That is between them and God. Just like you are not responsible for anyone else’s belief or interpretation of their “Universal Consciousness.”
    I feel like I can combine the wide range of Atheist beliefs into one group, just as they try to combine the vast differences between Christianity, religion and organized religion.
    I like facts- they can be disputed among men with dignity and grace and be disagreed upon equally. Beliefs, though, are harder to change and often is not possible.
    My entire purpose in joining the posting was to get something specific out of the generalities. I got something about churches being hospitals and answered generally in order to get a further response so that I could expand upon it. I did not get the response so I will put into a specific post some further things including what you have bought up about churches not paying taxes- interesting perspective on that I hope.

  3. Well, you did the same thing there, You stated that as a Christian, “WE” try to avoid doing evil. You can only be sure of your own specific actions and beliefs, not any one else out there. Not the pastors of the mega churches worth billions, not the lowly beggar that prays and gives thanks to his belief in, and the providence of his god for providing the meal of someone else’s garbage. Nor of any other thinking cognizant person on the planet. You, can only make definitive statements about your beliefs and the reasoning behind your actions.
    Just as I know that I would be unable to have you see the things that motivate my belief system, I, and you, are unable to understand what motivates the two that argue with you about such trivialities. There can be debate about interpretations of generally recognized facts.(not the bible itself, that is a conglomeration of parables and a few retold and altered stories attributed to persons that lived at that time) but the reality is none of you, nor I, can alter the belief systems of the others. And the vehemence with which the arguments occur it makes me believe that all of you think it is possible to do such. Might be why I stopped arguing with your stuff, and on my blog I just delete the trash talk and offensive comments. And I stopped posting my opinions about anything other than art on FB.

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